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	<title>Comments on: Top Eight Mistakes Pregnant Mothers Make at the Hospital</title>
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	<description>A dad's eye view of baby and toddler stuff</description>
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		<title>By: mira</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>mira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I lucked out with a primary L&amp;D nurse that was a midwife in England prior to coming to the states, and the secondary nurse was so good at her job that she was reading my birth tome while sitting on the floor with me while I was about 7 cm dilated.  They seemed to appreciate the fact that I had come to the delivery room fully prepared for any outcome yet determined to make my doc approved birth plan work (provided everything was ok medically), and completely respectful of their experience and position as L&amp;D nurses.  Turns out I didn&#039;t do any of the things on your list, perhaps that was why my labor and delivery progressed exactly as I&#039;d envisioned ;-)  My postpartum care was just as excellent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The only tip I&#039;d add is &quot;don&#039;t come to the hospital too early&quot; and note that timing will be different for everyone.  I am convinced that the reason I was able to have an intervention and medication free birth was because 75% of my labor occurred in my own home, rendering most of my birth plan moot points! &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lucked out with a primary L&#038;D nurse that was a midwife in England prior to coming to the states, and the secondary nurse was so good at her job that she was reading my birth tome while sitting on the floor with me while I was about 7 cm dilated.  They seemed to appreciate the fact that I had come to the delivery room fully prepared for any outcome yet determined to make my doc approved birth plan work (provided everything was ok medically), and completely respectful of their experience and position as L&#038;D nurses.  Turns out I didn&#8217;t do any of the things on your list, perhaps that was why my labor and delivery progressed exactly as I&#8217;d envisioned ;-)  My postpartum care was just as excellent.</p>
<p>The only tip I&#8217;d add is &#8220;don&#8217;t come to the hospital too early&#8221; and note that timing will be different for everyone.  I am convinced that the reason I was able to have an intervention and medication free birth was because 75% of my labor occurred in my own home, rendering most of my birth plan moot points! </p>
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		<title>By: thordora</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>thordora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;My first birth in hospital was terrible all around-nurses from HELL &quot;helping&quot; me-no wonder I had to be induced. The after care as I hemoragged was interesting if nothing else.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My second, great nurse with me during delivery, fairly oblivious afterwards. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My experience has made me want to become a nursemidwife though-since I&#039;d rather try and be part of the solution. Sadly, all I need to do is move to another province for that. :(&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first birth in hospital was terrible all around-nurses from HELL &#8220;helping&#8221; me-no wonder I had to be induced. The after care as I hemoragged was interesting if nothing else.</p>
<p>My second, great nurse with me during delivery, fairly oblivious afterwards. </p>
<p>My experience has made me want to become a nursemidwife though-since I&#8217;d rather try and be part of the solution. Sadly, all I need to do is move to another province for that. :(</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3330</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Whoops, I missed the thank-you question. The wife says... high quality pens and lotion.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Pens... fat, easy glide, with clickers instead of lids. Apparently, her hospital-supplied pens leave something to be desired.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lotion... because she&#039;s washing her hands all day.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Chocolates and candy are a big no. Nice fruit like Jessica mentioned are a yes, along with organics, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, I missed the thank-you question. The wife says&#8230; high quality pens and lotion.</p>
<p>Pens&#8230; fat, easy glide, with clickers instead of lids. Apparently, her hospital-supplied pens leave something to be desired.</p>
<p>Lotion&#8230; because she&#8217;s washing her hands all day.</p>
<p>Chocolates and candy are a big no. Nice fruit like Jessica mentioned are a yes, along with organics, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica G</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3329</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I planned on having both of my girls in hospitals attended by a midwife. My first birth was midwife delivered. My second was OB delivered (he was the husband of the midwife who did not show up). I am a huge fan of L&amp;D Nurses and think they are amazing. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On the subject of gifts for the nurses (from an above posting) my husband and I had one of those &quot;Edible Arrangements&quot; delivered while I was still in the hospital- a big bouquet of flower shaped fruit. They went nuts for it. Said they always get sweets and candy but said that at least 2/3 of them were always on a diet so fruit was much appreciated. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Fruit for thought. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I planned on having both of my girls in hospitals attended by a midwife. My first birth was midwife delivered. My second was OB delivered (he was the husband of the midwife who did not show up). I am a huge fan of L&#038;D Nurses and think they are amazing. </p>
<p>On the subject of gifts for the nurses (from an above posting) my husband and I had one of those &#8220;Edible Arrangements&#8221; delivered while I was still in the hospital- a big bouquet of flower shaped fruit. They went nuts for it. Said they always get sweets and candy but said that at least 2/3 of them were always on a diet so fruit was much appreciated. </p>
<p>Fruit for thought. </p>
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		<title>By: Marianne O</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3328</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Awwww, man... just finished typing out a masterpiece of a response (or so it always seems with hindsight) and it got blown away by the dreaded refresh of death. So allow me to use point form.&lt;br /&gt;
- I don&#039;t think we&#039;re really splitting hairs here.  There&#039;s no home vs. hospital bias here, I&#039;m happy in either.  There ARE some great hospitals around....likewise some great OBs and labour/delivery nurses.&lt;br /&gt;
- Actually, the whole anxiety-slow progress-augmentation situation is not unusual.  Slow progress is in fact the #1 factor cited in labour interventions... and side effects of pitocin are pretty common.  I admit I picked abruption because it makes a colourful example.  Yes, it&#039;s rare.  I suppose I could come up with a situation that your wife would consider more common or balanced... but honestly, the research literature is full of this stuff.  Surely this is not new information to her.&lt;br /&gt;
- Even my very favourite nurses &amp; obstetricians (who happen to be both reasonable and midwife-friendly) find it hard to impossible to believe that hospitals create as much risk as safety (at least in low-risk cases) and thus overall it&#039;s a wash.  This just goes against every nerve fiber &amp; bone cell they&#039;ve got.  So I&#039;m under no illusion that posts here are going to change anyone&#039;s mind.  But I do appreciate the opportunity to present the case. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awwww, man&#8230; just finished typing out a masterpiece of a response (or so it always seems with hindsight) and it got blown away by the dreaded refresh of death. So allow me to use point form.<br />
- I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re really splitting hairs here.  There&#8217;s no home vs. hospital bias here, I&#8217;m happy in either.  There ARE some great hospitals around&#8230;.likewise some great OBs and labour/delivery nurses.<br />
- Actually, the whole anxiety-slow progress-augmentation situation is not unusual.  Slow progress is in fact the #1 factor cited in labour interventions&#8230; and side effects of pitocin are pretty common.  I admit I picked abruption because it makes a colourful example.  Yes, it&#8217;s rare.  I suppose I could come up with a situation that your wife would consider more common or balanced&#8230; but honestly, the research literature is full of this stuff.  Surely this is not new information to her.<br />
- Even my very favourite nurses &#038; obstetricians (who happen to be both reasonable and midwife-friendly) find it hard to impossible to believe that hospitals create as much risk as safety (at least in low-risk cases) and thus overall it&#8217;s a wash.  This just goes against every nerve fiber &#038; bone cell they&#8217;ve got.  So I&#8217;m under no illusion that posts here are going to change anyone&#8217;s mind.  But I do appreciate the opportunity to present the case. </p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3327</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/12/top-eight-mistakes-pregnant-mothers-make-at-the-hospital.html#comment-3327</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marianne, I think we&#039;re splitting hairs. Yes, for mothers who are low risk and can handle a minimally attended labor, hospitals can involve complications because of policies due to medical-legal reasons, but many if not most people don&#039;t have those options where they live.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My wife has witnessed home births gone wrong (handled as emergencies when they arrived later at the hospital). I wouldn&#039;t (and she wouldn&#039;t) point to those as examples of why not to choose a home birth. And my wife has witnessed physiological issues where a birth goes bad that clearly cannot be blamed on anything except fate. For example, a uterine rupture will certainly cause two deaths at home while the mother might survive at a hospital.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is it a far-fetched example? Sure, just as is your scenario of a pitocin-induced rupture. And yet, I&#039;m sure you and my wife have seen or heard of both occurring.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What it comes down to (for me) is that hospitals, birth centers and home birthing are all valid settings. There&#039;s a place for everything and not everyone needs a hospital. It&#039;s an issue of where you are most comfortable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Incidentally, my wife originally wanted to be a midwife, until the realities of living your life on-call set in.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marianne, I think we&#8217;re splitting hairs. Yes, for mothers who are low risk and can handle a minimally attended labor, hospitals can involve complications because of policies due to medical-legal reasons, but many if not most people don&#8217;t have those options where they live.</p>
<p>My wife has witnessed home births gone wrong (handled as emergencies when they arrived later at the hospital). I wouldn&#8217;t (and she wouldn&#8217;t) point to those as examples of why not to choose a home birth. And my wife has witnessed physiological issues where a birth goes bad that clearly cannot be blamed on anything except fate. For example, a uterine rupture will certainly cause two deaths at home while the mother might survive at a hospital.</p>
<p>Is it a far-fetched example? Sure, just as is your scenario of a pitocin-induced rupture. And yet, I&#8217;m sure you and my wife have seen or heard of both occurring.</p>
<p>What it comes down to (for me) is that hospitals, birth centers and home birthing are all valid settings. There&#8217;s a place for everything and not everyone needs a hospital. It&#8217;s an issue of where you are most comfortable.</p>
<p>Incidentally, my wife originally wanted to be a midwife, until the realities of living your life on-call set in.</p>
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		<title>By: Marianne O</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3326</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Should have noted above that fear (e.g. of needles) is also well-documented as a factor in slowing down labour...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should have noted above that fear (e.g. of needles) is also well-documented as a factor in slowing down labour&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marianne O</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3325</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/12/top-eight-mistakes-pregnant-mothers-make-at-the-hospital.html#comment-3325</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course, white coat syndrome isn&#039;t an emergency... it&#039;s just the most basic example of an iatrogenic condition.  Let me give you an  example that DOES involve an emergency:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- A woman&#039;s labour is progressing slowly.  There are many possible causes, but for our purposes let&#039;s say it&#039;s decided that she&#039;s dehydrated.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- Choices for hydration include oral fluids or an IV.  But hospital X&#039;s policy is no fluids by mouth in active labour.  So she gets an IV.  (whereas in a different hospital, or other environment, fluids by mouth might be OK).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- IV restricts mobility.  She stops walking around and lies down.  The woman is also quite upset about needing an IV as she hates needles.  Progress slows further.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- To address the continued problems with slow progress, pitocin ( a drug to stimulate contractions) is added to the IV.  The woman is quite worried that labour will be unbearable with Pitocin, and requests an epidural (not in her birth plan).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- Severe fetal heart rate decelerations are noted, and the woman&#039;s uterus is hard as a board.  It is determined that a placental abruption is happening.  This is a life-threatening situation for mom and baby.  A &quot;crash&quot; C-section is ordered.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, there&#039;s a clear link in the research between pitocin augmentation and placental abruption, even under the most diligent care.  We also know that provision of fluids by mouth is safe in moderation (despite the widespread &amp; long-standing policies against it). &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Would this PARTICULAR abruption have happened if oral fluids had been given, and the IV avoided?  Who knows.  Could have happened anyway.  But we do know that statistically, across a large population, a less interventive setting produces far fewer emergencies.  Hence my comments earlier.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;By the way, my midwifery training included obstetric rotations in very poor and disadvantaged communities.  I&#039;m aware that not everyone is low-risk.  But even the moderate to high-risk folks face extra risks in an intervention-happy environment.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t want to bore anyone here (too late, maybe???) so am happy to continue the discussion off-line if you&#039;re interested.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cheers&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, white coat syndrome isn&#8217;t an emergency&#8230; it&#8217;s just the most basic example of an iatrogenic condition.  Let me give you an  example that DOES involve an emergency:</p>
<p>- A woman&#8217;s labour is progressing slowly.  There are many possible causes, but for our purposes let&#8217;s say it&#8217;s decided that she&#8217;s dehydrated.</p>
<p>- Choices for hydration include oral fluids or an IV.  But hospital X&#8217;s policy is no fluids by mouth in active labour.  So she gets an IV.  (whereas in a different hospital, or other environment, fluids by mouth might be OK).</p>
<p>- IV restricts mobility.  She stops walking around and lies down.  The woman is also quite upset about needing an IV as she hates needles.  Progress slows further.</p>
<p>- To address the continued problems with slow progress, pitocin ( a drug to stimulate contractions) is added to the IV.  The woman is quite worried that labour will be unbearable with Pitocin, and requests an epidural (not in her birth plan).</p>
<p>- Severe fetal heart rate decelerations are noted, and the woman&#8217;s uterus is hard as a board.  It is determined that a placental abruption is happening.  This is a life-threatening situation for mom and baby.  A &#8220;crash&#8221; C-section is ordered.</p>
<p>Now, there&#8217;s a clear link in the research between pitocin augmentation and placental abruption, even under the most diligent care.  We also know that provision of fluids by mouth is safe in moderation (despite the widespread &#038; long-standing policies against it). </p>
<p>Would this PARTICULAR abruption have happened if oral fluids had been given, and the IV avoided?  Who knows.  Could have happened anyway.  But we do know that statistically, across a large population, a less interventive setting produces far fewer emergencies.  Hence my comments earlier.</p>
<p>By the way, my midwifery training included obstetric rotations in very poor and disadvantaged communities.  I&#8217;m aware that not everyone is low-risk.  But even the moderate to high-risk folks face extra risks in an intervention-happy environment.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to bore anyone here (too late, maybe???) so am happy to continue the discussion off-line if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3324</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marianne, it&#039;s true given that most pregnant women are young and healthy. People who are going to use low-risk settings such as birth centers and their own home are self-selected and generally even healthier than the healthy population at the hospital.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, (my wife says) no one in their right mind has ever mistaken white coat syndrome for an emergency.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll add that a hospital serves *everyone*, and you&#039;d be surprised, shocked and saddened by the folks who fall on the unfortunate end of that spectrum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marianne, it&#8217;s true given that most pregnant women are young and healthy. People who are going to use low-risk settings such as birth centers and their own home are self-selected and generally even healthier than the healthy population at the hospital.</p>
<p>However, (my wife says) no one in their right mind has ever mistaken white coat syndrome for an emergency.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll add that a hospital serves *everyone*, and you&#8217;d be surprised, shocked and saddened by the folks who fall on the unfortunate end of that spectrum.</p>
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		<title>By: Marianne O</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/12/hospitalbag.html/comment-page-1#comment-3323</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;AJ, I always enjoy your articles and comments... but oh boy do I have to dispute the comment that &quot;an emergency is usually caused not by the practitioner, but the mother&#039;s physiology.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are some emergencies that have nothing to do with the practitioner or environment.  However, these are (thankfully) few.  Evidence strongly supports the position that most obstetrical &quot;emergencies&quot; are in fact iatrogenic, i.e. either caused by, or aggravated by, the practitioner/care environment.  A very simple example is the &quot;white-coat&quot; response to procedures, e.g. blood pressure going up in a clinical setting, as compared to the lower pressure found in a less clinical setting.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would argue that obstetrics is by FAR the most iatrogenic of all the health disciplines.  As a former midwife, I admit my bias here.  But the evidence really does speak for itself.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ, I always enjoy your articles and comments&#8230; but oh boy do I have to dispute the comment that &#8220;an emergency is usually caused not by the practitioner, but the mother&#8217;s physiology.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are some emergencies that have nothing to do with the practitioner or environment.  However, these are (thankfully) few.  Evidence strongly supports the position that most obstetrical &#8220;emergencies&#8221; are in fact iatrogenic, i.e. either caused by, or aggravated by, the practitioner/care environment.  A very simple example is the &#8220;white-coat&#8221; response to procedures, e.g. blood pressure going up in a clinical setting, as compared to the lower pressure found in a less clinical setting.</p>
<p>I would argue that obstetrics is by FAR the most iatrogenic of all the health disciplines.  As a former midwife, I admit my bias here.  But the evidence really does speak for itself.</p>
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