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	<title>Comments on: Stay at Home Dads: Too Feminine?</title>
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	<description>A dad's eye view of baby and toddler stuff</description>
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		<title>By: My Boaz&#39;s Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3448</link>
		<dc:creator>My Boaz&#39;s Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3448</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Conservative Christian here.  I absolutely believe in different roles for men and women.  Don&#039;t listen to your Christian radio stations, Jim so I don&#039;t know what you are hearing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But right now my husband is the stay at home parent for our son.  None of our pastors, even though they lead the Gideon&#039;s posse and make a big deal about teaching men to be Men, have any problems with this.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So I have a feeling that something is getting lost in the translation here.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservative Christian here.  I absolutely believe in different roles for men and women.  Don&#8217;t listen to your Christian radio stations, Jim so I don&#8217;t know what you are hearing.</p>
<p>But right now my husband is the stay at home parent for our son.  None of our pastors, even though they lead the Gideon&#8217;s posse and make a big deal about teaching men to be Men, have any problems with this.</p>
<p>So I have a feeling that something is getting lost in the translation here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Alan&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Not in the least, but I think that media does say something about its audience.  This is the same media that is referenced by the local Christians (the audience) when I talk to them.  The authors of the books that these Christians read often have prominent shows on those stations.  The locals grace the local Christian book stores that stock best selling books by these Christian media personalities and organizations (like Promise Keepers).  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, it is not the only message and by no means do I think that the it represents every facet of all Christians in this area, however (especially on the stations that are &quot;community supported&quot; as a few of the 4 or 5 stations in the area are), I would say that the message being presented is endorsed, both figuratively and literally, by its audience.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alan</p>
<p>Not in the least, but I think that media does say something about its audience.  This is the same media that is referenced by the local Christians (the audience) when I talk to them.  The authors of the books that these Christians read often have prominent shows on those stations.  The locals grace the local Christian book stores that stock best selling books by these Christian media personalities and organizations (like Promise Keepers).  </p>
<p>So, it is not the only message and by no means do I think that the it represents every facet of all Christians in this area, however (especially on the stations that are &#8220;community supported&#8221; as a few of the 4 or 5 stations in the area are), I would say that the message being presented is endorsed, both figuratively and literally, by its audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3446</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3446</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Jim&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Are you seriously stating that the radio represents how people actually are? I certainly hope not.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;---&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s not fringe to say that there are different roles for men and women. It&#039;s fringe (and un-Biblical FWIW) to say that a woman&#039;s place is always in the kitchen and a man&#039;s place is always the wage-earner outside the home.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It depends on the individuals involved. Some men are better suited to stay at home, and some women would murder their children if that&#039;s all they did. Some kids do better with homeschooling, some would do fine in a classroom environment. God distributes his gifts among us all.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim</p>
<p>Are you seriously stating that the radio represents how people actually are? I certainly hope not.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not fringe to say that there are different roles for men and women. It&#8217;s fringe (and un-Biblical FWIW) to say that a woman&#8217;s place is always in the kitchen and a man&#8217;s place is always the wage-earner outside the home.</p>
<p>It depends on the individuals involved. Some men are better suited to stay at home, and some women would murder their children if that&#8217;s all they did. Some kids do better with homeschooling, some would do fine in a classroom environment. God distributes his gifts among us all.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3445</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3445</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi AJ.  I am not saying at all that staying at home is any easier that working.  I&#039;m not really good at wording.  My time at home with my kid has been absolutely exhausting and I know it can probably be even harder.  I can&#039;t imagine those who have multiple births.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My pastor was addressing a very specific example of counseling where a young, childless couple decided to let the husband stay home and not work simply because the wife made a significant income.  When they were expecting their first child, he chose not to look for employment to allow his wife the option of staying home.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My wife and I are struggling through this right now.  She makes a decent living as a pharmacist and it would be &quot;easier&quot; for me to stay home and care for our newborn when her maternity leave is up.  But I do feel that I have a responsibility to my family to keep working and progressing through my career so that my wife, if and when we have another, could choose to stay home, which is her preference.  So at least for now, we&#039;re going to go through the more &quot;complicated&quot; dance of timing schedules to make sure that we don&#039;t need to leave our child with a nanny.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I hope that clarifies a bit.  In terms of men being man enough to stay at home though.  At least for my brother-in-law I don&#039;t think that will work.  His son refuses to take a bottle and until the kid is on solid food consistently breast feeding&#039;s the only option.  &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi AJ.  I am not saying at all that staying at home is any easier that working.  I&#8217;m not really good at wording.  My time at home with my kid has been absolutely exhausting and I know it can probably be even harder.  I can&#8217;t imagine those who have multiple births.  </p>
<p>My pastor was addressing a very specific example of counseling where a young, childless couple decided to let the husband stay home and not work simply because the wife made a significant income.  When they were expecting their first child, he chose not to look for employment to allow his wife the option of staying home.  </p>
<p>My wife and I are struggling through this right now.  She makes a decent living as a pharmacist and it would be &#8220;easier&#8221; for me to stay home and care for our newborn when her maternity leave is up.  But I do feel that I have a responsibility to my family to keep working and progressing through my career so that my wife, if and when we have another, could choose to stay home, which is her preference.  So at least for now, we&#8217;re going to go through the more &#8220;complicated&#8221; dance of timing schedules to make sure that we don&#8217;t need to leave our child with a nanny.</p>
<p>I hope that clarifies a bit.  In terms of men being man enough to stay at home though.  At least for my brother-in-law I don&#8217;t think that will work.  His son refuses to take a bottle and until the kid is on solid food consistently breast feeding&#8217;s the only option.  </p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3444</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3444</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All of the primary caregivers in the room just passed out.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Chris, you wrote: &quot;He is not suggesting that there something wrong with the stay-at-home dad, but wants us to fight against the urge to do so because of laziness and comfort.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What part of being responsible for full-time care of a child is lazy and comfortable? It is one of the most demanding, most exhausting jobs in existence. I&#039;ll turn that around and ask, why aren&#039;t more men man enough to be stay-at-home dads?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the primary caregivers in the room just passed out.</p>
<p>Chris, you wrote: &#8220;He is not suggesting that there something wrong with the stay-at-home dad, but wants us to fight against the urge to do so because of laziness and comfort.&#8221;</p>
<p>What part of being responsible for full-time care of a child is lazy and comfortable? It is one of the most demanding, most exhausting jobs in existence. I&#8217;ll turn that around and ask, why aren&#8217;t more men man enough to be stay-at-home dads?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3443</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3443</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;After reading their article I think I undestand the intent of what they are saying.  They encourage fathers to take much more active roles with their children than the cultural stereotype and may have been done in the past.  That can hardly be a bad thing.  The part about stay at home dads is more poorly said than anything else.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The senior pastor of my church happens to be a member of the council and he&#039;s given a number of messages to this point.  He is not suggesting that there something wrong with the stay-at-home dad, but wants us to fight against the urge to do so because of laziness and comfort.  Part of what the author of the blog is arguing against is that involved fathers are like mothers.  His second to last paragraph is very positive in suggesting that these things that people are attributing as being more feminine is &quot;recovering what is good and right about fatherhood.&quot;  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe I should add though that I would have no problem giving my sons a doll, if they wanted one.  I still have quite a collection of stuffed animals of my own.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading their article I think I undestand the intent of what they are saying.  They encourage fathers to take much more active roles with their children than the cultural stereotype and may have been done in the past.  That can hardly be a bad thing.  The part about stay at home dads is more poorly said than anything else.  </p>
<p>The senior pastor of my church happens to be a member of the council and he&#8217;s given a number of messages to this point.  He is not suggesting that there something wrong with the stay-at-home dad, but wants us to fight against the urge to do so because of laziness and comfort.  Part of what the author of the blog is arguing against is that involved fathers are like mothers.  His second to last paragraph is very positive in suggesting that these things that people are attributing as being more feminine is &#8220;recovering what is good and right about fatherhood.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Maybe I should add though that I would have no problem giving my sons a doll, if they wanted one.  I still have quite a collection of stuffed animals of my own.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t these people realize that rearing children both *requires* and *develops* &quot;courage, adventure, resilience, toughness, and predilection to protect and provide for others&quot;??&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t these people realize that rearing children both *requires* and *develops* &#8220;courage, adventure, resilience, toughness, and predilection to protect and provide for others&#8221;??</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3441</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3441</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I too am horrified at that blog&#039;s interpretation of scripture and Biblical gender roles. As a new father to a beautiful boy, I was moved by your posting about teaching our sons to be good, loving, caring fathers. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As a Christan working in Christian higher education, I see that type of thinking being indoctrinated at all levels to our students (ie the only movie discussion to teach about what it means to be a man is Braveheart).  Raising our sons to be anything but who God made them to be is NOT courage. Nor is raising them to be one-dimensional &quot;manly-men&quot; who are threatened by the thought of a boy not fitting into their Western stereotype of &quot;manhood.&quot; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Please don&#039;t take Gender Blog&#039;s twisting of scripture as accurate. A good place to start is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbeinternational.org.&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cbeinternational.org.&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am horrified at that blog&#8217;s interpretation of scripture and Biblical gender roles. As a new father to a beautiful boy, I was moved by your posting about teaching our sons to be good, loving, caring fathers. </p>
<p>As a Christan working in Christian higher education, I see that type of thinking being indoctrinated at all levels to our students (ie the only movie discussion to teach about what it means to be a man is Braveheart).  Raising our sons to be anything but who God made them to be is NOT courage. Nor is raising them to be one-dimensional &#8220;manly-men&#8221; who are threatened by the thought of a boy not fitting into their Western stereotype of &#8220;manhood.&#8221; </p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t take Gender Blog&#8217;s twisting of scripture as accurate. A good place to start is <a href="http://www.cbeinternational.org." rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.cbeinternational.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbeinternational.org</a>. </p>
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		<title>By: Christy</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3440</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3440</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One thing to keep in mind about alot of these biblical quotes and beliefs is taht the Bible was written during a time where men were more or less controlling over their wives and wives were meant to be subservient to their husbands.  I am a Christian, albiet not an overly conservative one.  My mom has turned into a pretty conservative one.  She remarried 5 years ago after being divorced from my dad for about 20 years.  She used to be very independent and never wanted to rely on a man for anything.  Since she started attending her church she believes in the Bible verbatim to the point that she believes her husband comes before her children.  Her husband not being the father of her children.   She also believes in being subservient to her husband which is the exact opposite of everything she taught me growing up.  So to sum up, that gobbldegook about manhood and masculinity was written during a different period in history when men and women had distinctly different roles.  Now the lines are blurred.  If I made loads of money, I would have no problem with my husband being a stay-at-home dad.  He would love to do it.  My sister-in-law&#039;s husband is a stay-at-home dad and a friend of ours is considering becoming one when he and his wife have kids becasue she is the breadwinner in the house.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to keep in mind about alot of these biblical quotes and beliefs is taht the Bible was written during a time where men were more or less controlling over their wives and wives were meant to be subservient to their husbands.  I am a Christian, albiet not an overly conservative one.  My mom has turned into a pretty conservative one.  She remarried 5 years ago after being divorced from my dad for about 20 years.  She used to be very independent and never wanted to rely on a man for anything.  Since she started attending her church she believes in the Bible verbatim to the point that she believes her husband comes before her children.  Her husband not being the father of her children.   She also believes in being subservient to her husband which is the exact opposite of everything she taught me growing up.  So to sum up, that gobbldegook about manhood and masculinity was written during a different period in history when men and women had distinctly different roles.  Now the lines are blurred.  If I made loads of money, I would have no problem with my husband being a stay-at-home dad.  He would love to do it.  My sister-in-law&#8217;s husband is a stay-at-home dad and a friend of ours is considering becoming one when he and his wife have kids becasue she is the breadwinner in the house.</p>
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		<title>By: Bee</title>
		<link>http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/11/quiche.html/comment-page-1#comment-3439</link>
		<dc:creator>Bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s54748.gridserver.com/baby/2007/11/stay-at-home-dads-too-feminine.html#comment-3439</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Adrianne, Judy &amp; Erin (and any other supportive ladies present)&lt;br /&gt;
Thank-you.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@AJ&lt;br /&gt;
I think that&#039;s list needs making.  Add my Action-Man with non-removable blue pants and pushable pram/tank to the list.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@Jim&lt;br /&gt;
Over here in the UK this is definitely &#039;fringe&#039; thinking.  Last year the Church of England made more female-clergy than male; of these church leaders about a quarter of them have hubbies who are or have been a home dad (&lt;a href=&quot;http://cucumbersandwiches.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://cucumbersandwiches.org&lt;/a&gt; - clergy husbands united).  There is a problem with the &#039;normalising&#039; of fluid gender roles in the church here though, in that the dissenters from our more liberal norm are the really, really noisy ones.  ---sigh---&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Adrianne, Judy &#038; Erin (and any other supportive ladies present)<br />
Thank-you.</p>
<p>@AJ<br />
I think that&#8217;s list needs making.  Add my Action-Man with non-removable blue pants and pushable pram/tank to the list.</p>
<p>@Jim<br />
Over here in the UK this is definitely &#8216;fringe&#8217; thinking.  Last year the Church of England made more female-clergy than male; of these church leaders about a quarter of them have hubbies who are or have been a home dad (<a href="http://cucumbersandwiches.org" rel="nofollow">http://cucumbersandwiches.org</a> &#8211; clergy husbands united).  There is a problem with the &#8216;normalising&#8217; of fluid gender roles in the church here though, in that the dissenters from our more liberal norm are the really, really noisy ones.  &#8212;sigh&#8212;</p>
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