Attachment Parenting: Baby Wearing vs. Car Seat Lugging vs. Stroller Pushing

Imagine: You are eating at a cafe one day when you notice a dad uncomfortably lugging his baby around in a portable car seat. The dad huffs and puffs, setting the seat down and picking it up multiple times as he makes his way through the café.

A compact fluorescent bulb turns on inside your head. You stand up and shout, “There has to be a better way! Get that dad a baby wrap or sling!”

No, wait. That’s not your response.

A match flickers inside your head and you shout, “I’m going to invent a shoulder harness for that dad to carry his baby car seat around town!” Or something to that effect.

Marketing photo of a mother carrying her baby in the Falcon Car Seat Carrier.

Challenge to mothers everywhere: try breastfeeding with an infant car seat.

The Flying Falcon Car Seat Carrier sports a 2″ wide adjustable shoulder strap with 3/8″ thick shoulder padding. You tighten the straps around the car seat with assistance from strategically placed adhesive Velcro stuck on the seat (that Velcro is then matched to Velcro that is sewn onto the carrier). The Falcon has two steel adjustment buckles and a steel hinge bar buckle with a 300lb breaking strength.

Now, there are two types of parents reading this article. Some of you are looking at the product photo and thinking, “Hmm, that’s really interesting.” The other group is looking at that photo and thinking, “What the hell is wrong with our society?”

Yes, this is where I become unpopular with some of you. I think parents who hand carry their babies in car seats are insane. So what if your baby might cry if you lift him out of his seat and put him into a cloth carrier? Crying is one of many potential outcomes. He could remain sleeping. He could go right back to sleep once you tuck him into a cloth carrier that hugs your body. He might not even be sleeping in the first place.

Instead, you burden yourself by going against thousands of years of baby wearing, choosing for your baby to know a plastic seat better than he knows you. It’s insanity. Go ahead, leave a comment telling me I’m the one who is mentally deficient.

OK,  OK, let’s stop a minute and cool off. Maybe I was too harsh on the Falcon carrier. It seemed strange and awkward at first because I’ve never owned a portable car seat. The softer side of me thinks that if you have already made the decision to lug a car seat around with you, you do need precisely this type of accessory to help alleviate the physical discomfort. The Falcon Carrier is a sane response to an insane situation.

Now, to be sure I offend everyone who isn’t perturbed yet, consider the similarity of walking around with a car seat to walking around with a stroller. Both are devices being used in lieu of direct parent contact, detached from the rhythms of the parent’s day.

Check out this Washington Post article, An Idea Still Looking for Traction in Kenya: East African Women Vote With Their Feet Against Baby Strollers.

“The stroller has sparked debate among African pediatricians who think the device — first crafted as a labor-saving tool for the European middle class — may damage the relationship between a mother and a child.

“‘The pram is the ultimate in pushing the baby away from you,’ said a child psychiatrist in Nairobi.”

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a complete blithering idiot. Not completely. I do own a stroller. We do use it for long recreational walks. If I was a jogger, I’d be even more appreciative. If I had a second child, a stroller could be handy while reigning in my older running toddler. So I’ll admit strollers have their place in society. But you still have to convince me about portable car seats.

Incidentally, here is what Dr. William Sears has to say about the benefits of baby wearing:

  1. Sling babies cry less.
  2. Sling babies learn more.
  3. Sling babies are more organized.
  4. Sling babies get “humanized” earlier.
  5. Sling babies are smarter.

Does a similar list exist for baby car seats and baby strollers?

All of these issues gets wrapped up into the philosophy of attachment parenting. It’s a phrase Dr. Sears coined which could be summarized as a parenting approach that emphasizes creating a strong emotional bond with your baby. What it really describes is how parents used to raise their babies before we got all caught up in buying baby gear.

I think I’ll stop writing now before I get all Jerry McGuire on you and burn my baby product blog in effigy.

Update: When I write critically about a product invention, there is often a defensive reaction from the inventor upon his or her discovering Thingamababy. Lest it be missed, John Sanchez, the inventor of the Falcon Carrier, posted a delightfully calm and reasoned observation below.


34 Responses to “Attachment Parenting: Baby Wearing vs. Car Seat Lugging vs. Stroller Pushing”

  1. John Sanchez says:

    My wife breast fed for 6 months and never while in the car seat either. My wife used a sling as well.

    March 2nd, 2007 at 11:34 am

  2. Jenny says:

    That product looks horrendously uncomfortable. I am a big fan of babywearing – it is much easier on the back than I imagine a car seat carrier would be, and given that the weather here is too snowy for strollers, my baby sling enables me to get out of the house easily and comfortably.

    I do own a car seat, but it remains in the car!

    March 2nd, 2007 at 1:00 pm

  3. STL Mom says:

    I had both a sling and a front carrier, and used them both. BUT, I have to jump in and defend the portable car seat. Just one example would be driving my older child to preschool. If I had to unbuckle the baby from his car seat while stopping his sister from jumping out of the car, deal with his crying because he changed position, walk his sister into preschool, carry him back out to the car, put him back in the carseat, buckle him up, deal with his crying because I’ve changed his situation twice in five minutes… see the problem?
    This whole scenario takes half the time and eliminates the crying if I just leave the happy baby in the warm, cozy portable car seat and carry him around. I was really sad when he outgrew that carseat (at about 6 months). Of course babies shouldn’t LIVE in the carseat while being dragged to all their siblings’ events, but they can make life a lot easier for parents.
    Speaking to the Flying Falcon shoulder strap — a 300 pound kid really needs to get up and walk!

    March 2nd, 2007 at 1:58 pm

  4. Kate says:

    I still use a sling with my 22-lb. solely breastfed giant of a six-month-old… attachment parenting has been hard on my back.

    On the other hand, for the few short months he was in the portable car seat, I was able to take him on quick errands (including dropping off his older brother at preschool) but still put him down for a few minutes when I needed a break. Those car seats are clumsy and inconvenient, especially when your kid is growing faster than your muscles, and I can see the utility of a shoulder strap for a quick errand.

    I guess I could de-sling and use the fabric of the sling as a ground cover to put him down. But I don’t.

    March 2nd, 2007 at 2:27 pm

  5. Mary says:

    I think there’s a middle ground here. I used a sling for both my kids and I wish I could still get the toddler in there. However, my second kid has taken many a fine nap in her car seat, and would wake up if we removed her from it. We have often carried the car seat, with sleeping child, into the house, set it down in a a quiet room, enjoyed the benefits of a long nap. We live in the city and don’t have a garage so sometimes we’ve had to lug that car seat for a block or two. Not fun. I’m not sure I would have bought this gadget, but there are many lugging occasions in which it might have come in handy. Especially when there is also a grocery bag or two involved. Which, come to think of it, is why a stroller is such a wonderful thing. It helps one to carry things in addition to a heavy child, especially when one is walking to stores instead of driving.

    March 2nd, 2007 at 2:29 pm

  6. John says:

    There are some very good examples here of exactly why the FALCON Infant Car Seat Carrier was designed. It is ideal for the napping infant. We used it everyday going from the house to the car and visa versa with our twins. We always removed the twins from the car seat whenever we arrived to our destination.

    I did not put the handle on the car seat, I just created a much easier way to get around for those that will always use it. As long as there is a handle on a car seat, people will use it, some will use the handle all the time. That is a known fact. I will tell you, for the short trip, with a diaper bag or grocery bag and a toddler, getting in a house or car, going to a restaurant, the FALCON Infant Car Seat Carrier is truly is a great device, for those that will use it. It is for those times that you do not want to use your stroller or remove your infant from the car seat to be placed in a sling.

    I would like to thank you all for your input and comments. I have been called every name in the book , told that I never should have brought this product to market, I’m a bad father, and much more, it truly is unbelievable.
    This is a very tame group,

    Thank you,

    March 2nd, 2007 at 3:44 pm

  7. Miriam says:

    I would like to note that while I agree that infant slings are a very useful tool, and are widely used for many situations and exclusively used in many cultures, there are other circumstances that you fail to consider in the use of a portable car seat or a stroller. As the inventor notes, twins come to mind. Multiple children who are very close in age is another. Have you ever tried to wear one baby while bulging and pregnant with another? It ain’t easy, I’ll tell you that! I think it’s important to recognize that some things are very easy to judge when you are the parent of one child, and you should be aware when making criticisms that all situations are not equal. As the parent of a 2.4 year old, a 14 month old, and 6 months pregnant with our third, infant carriers, strollers, and portable car seats are as much a necessity of life for me as diapers and wipes!

    March 2nd, 2007 at 7:54 pm

  8. Kind of Crunchy Mama says:

    Uh yeah, strapping a baby plus a 7lb car seat to your body in an awkward position makes total sense @@. No more sore arms, but your back sure isn’t going to be thanking you.

    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:56 am

  9. STL Mom says:

    Speaking of awkward and uncomfortable, I need to sell that Kelty backpack that I used about twice for each of my children. The Flying Falcon actually doesn’t look much worse than that to me. I think it would be useful in some situations, like when a trip combines taking a taxi with a short walk, and you don’t want to deal with a stroller. John, focus your advertising dollars on New York City and good luck!

    March 3rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm

  10. Beckie Tetrault says:

    I am a rabid sling wearer/collector, and also do not own a baby bucket style seat, nor so I use strollers. It’s always good to hear from pro-slinging dads! :)

    March 3rd, 2007 at 6:59 pm

  11. tanyetta says:

    i love your blog :)

    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:21 pm

  12. FLYING FALCON says:

    This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Read this,

    You have to see this new baby product called the Flying Falcon at Thingamababy. It is beyond ridiculous.

    I’m not saying this because I think you need to wear your baby 24/7 in order for them to be properly bonded to you. I use all sorts of baby gear from slings to strollers depending on the situation.

    This product is just stupid. Strapping a baby to your body plus 7lbs worth of awkward car seat makes no sense at all. I can just imagine how it feels on your neck and shoulders. For small amount the amount of time you could bear to wear this contraption, you might as well just carry the damn thing with your hands.

    I’m sorry lady. Anyway,I tried a sling and I wasn’t going for it, my wife loved it. But I didn’t trash anyone for using them. “If it works for you, then use it up” is what I think. The sling wasn’t workin for me, but I didn’t tell everone they are Rediculous.

    WOW Lady, Relax
    Anyway, don’t freak out when they show up in your town.

    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:16 pm

  13. AJ says:

    John/FF, in Crunchy Mama’s defense, she didn’t “trash” anyone, meaning any person. She called a product “stupid” and explained her rationale for that opinion. You could argue I did the same thing using different verbiage.

    I’ve been critical of baby inventions on several occasions and you’re not the first inventor to then find my critique. I realize we’re talking about a product that is near and dear to your heart, so here’s one point I want to make…

    People are attracted to information sources that reinforce their existing opinions. A person with a neutral opinion who reads the word “stupid” in a commentary knows the speaker is opinionated. The best way to sway opinion is to be neutral, pointing out good and bad points, but blogs do usually express a viewpoint. Also consider, neither Crunchy Mama or I have actually used the product and I specifically state I’ve never owned a portable seat that is the basis for your product. I am a world away from understanding an improved carrier for a car seat I refuse to own. I doubt Crunchy Mama and I have changed any reader opinions. To the contrary, more people know about your product now.

    Look at the comments in this thread. Plenty of parents are saying essentially, “OK AJ, but did you consider…”

    And that is why even negative publicity is good publicity (incidentally, I work as a publicist). I’ll wager there are parents who will see your product photo on Thingamababy and think, “I want that.”

    March 4th, 2007 at 9:08 am

  14. sam says:

    Why does this need to be an either/or issue? The product we’re talkining about does look awkward, and baby slings are wonderful, but an infant seat can have it’s place. It’s a good place to keep a tiny baby who is too small for a high chair when you go to a restaurant or a friends house. I go for long walks with my dog and the infant seat snapped right in to the stroller. I just think there is room for both, one doesn’t have to choose one or the other.

    March 14th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

  15. Jamie says:

    I had the Fisher Price Stay in View infact carseat/carrier for my first child in 2002, it had a built in shoulder strap and I LOVED it. (Sadly it is not made anymore.) I also wore my baby (who was 20 lbs at 3 months!) in a sling. Here’s the thing that makes the shoulder carrying awesome – cold weather! When it is 12 below outside and baby is in his seat with a warm cover over the whole thing with a little face opening (you know the type), and not a bulky jacket/coverall (because they cause an unsafe bunching & poor fit under the safety straps)…why on earth would I take my cozy baby out of that just to run a few errands in and out of the dry cleaners, post office, etc.? I do not think a decision like that makes me unaffectionate or distant, just considerate. HOORAY for the shoulder strap!

    March 20th, 2007 at 11:14 pm

  16. Dylan says:

    Great discussion.

    And I had never heard of this product, and am now aware of it, so it is good publicity.

    I’m also a fan of slings, and generally think the closer your baby can be to you the better…

    However, my biggest complaint about car seat buckets are those that use them all day, and so the baby isn’t touched or held for hours at a time.

    It seems some practical and conscious adjustments can be made of any extreme viewpoint, and since none of us are in the shoes of someone who feels the strap is a blessing to their lives, who are we to judge?

    March 28th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

  17. Renee says:

    I’m sure Ive nothing new to add but of course I feel compelled to put in my two cents anyhow. I probably would not use the Flying Falcon though I can see how it might be useful. I do, however, use a sling. I have three children; 8, 3 and 21 mo and the sling was the most handy piece of baby gear I had. I’m currently pregnant with our 4th and it looks like I’m going to have to buy a new one! I also use a double stroller since carting around 2 small children that have out grown the sling is sometimes difficult. I can just see me now.. a sling carrying mamma pushing a stroller.. this prospect seems so much better than strapping on that infant car seat while I’m pushing my filled stroller. Oh and just a quick question… For those of you who are using this device to make a quick trip to drop off an older sibbling at day care or school, is it really that much easier than just carrying the car seat? Seems like more work to me.
    With all of that said.. Kudos to John for inventing the Flying Falcon carseat carrier! Doing something to ease the burdens of moms and dads everywhere can never be a bad thing.

    June 24th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

  18. Catharine says:

    I have to put my 2 cents in also….but 1st a little info on my situation. Im 21 have a 4 month old and a 2 year old and my husband is in the military. My husband has been home for only 10 months the 4 years we have been married and those werent 10 consecutive months….in fact right now hes deployed to kuwait has been there since October and wont be coming home until February sometime….that being said I use a portable carseat not a sling. And honestly its for safety reasons….can u imagine running full sprint after a 2 year old while having a baby in the sling? Oh yeah dont see that being very safe….so for thoes of you that have some help with your children more power to you but for us who are trying our best to make things work alone the carseat is the best thing. BTW dont get me wrong when we are at home we snuggle and play and my daughter is not just put in her car seat. but when we are out shes in the car seat and my 2 year old is in the stroller…

    June 29th, 2007 at 10:28 am

  19. Jessica says:

    Adding my own opinion here..I think whoever invented this was pretty’s for when you do have to carry your carseat. Doesn’t replace slings or any other gear we have to sometimes use with our children…it just seems that it might make life a little easier for those that need it. I’m 9 mos pregnant with #6 and my older children are 7,5,4,3,&16 mos. I love a sling too but I can see one of these things as being handy… for restaurants and such. Anyway, I don’t own one but am considering it….just wanted to put my two cents in as well.

    August 30th, 2007 at 6:36 am

  20. Louise says:

    I plan to purchase one of the carriers for going to visit grandparents. They have a stroller waiting their end but the carseat they have is not suitable for our baby as he still a bit small so we are going to take our carseat with us on the plane journey. I had thought that we would have to awkwardly carry around the carseat whilst at the airport and it would be rather awful but this seems like it would be just the useful product we are looking for. It isn’t a replacement for holding your baby, but I for one don’t want to be doing that for the eight hours our journey will take and I know my baby won’t like that either. We will be taking him out and playing and cuddling throughout the journey but if he is nicely asleep when we need to move we can do so without disturbing him and carry the seat conveniently at the same time. I can’t see this product being used day after day, who would if there is the choice of a sling or stroller? I shall be taking the sling as well. But there are certian situations that I have been in when it would have been really useful. I would like to thank John Sanchez for inventing it, I hope it’s as useful as it looks.

    September 9th, 2007 at 1:10 am

  21. amanda says:

    i am actually looking to buy a new car seat like this one with the sling. it is great fisher price made something similar and i have been looking everywhere for it. it makes the baby seem lighter than with just a regular car seat. if you are carrying alot of stuff that is great put the car seat over your shoulder carry groceries in one hand and open the door with the other. it is just great!

    January 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 am

  22. Jenn says:

    I ownt the fisher price car seat and they stopped making it and i have been trying to figure out how to make a portable strap that you can add to any car seat.BRAVO to you for figuring it out. it looks great and safe and looks like it can adapt to any car seat. I will forever keep my fisher price carseat with soulder strap. and I used it on two of my children and I never had it easier. I could put the carseat over my shoulder and hold my other two kids hands while walking and I thought it was horrible that they stopped making this carseat. how can I buy one of these straps??????? It would make a great gift to future mothers!!! I cant figure how to puchase one on this sight.

    January 31st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

  23. Rebecca says:

    I sent this as an email to the inventor of this product:

    I’m so grateful to have found your product! If it wouldn’t have been for Thingamababy’s negative review, I never would have ;o). I attachment parent, breastfeed, and wear my baby in a sling, which is why I love this product; it helps me be consistent with my parenting style. I have 5 other kids and a home to care for, and when a baby falls asleep in a sling, I can’t always set them down without waking them. When they fall asleep in the car seat, I can set the whole contraption down and get chores done without waking the baby! I had a Fisher Price car seat with a sling attachment built in that I loved, but FP discontinued making them, and it’s been through 3 kids now. I need a new alternative, and this looks great!

    I usually carry my baby in the car seat while they are sleeping, covered up with my sling ;o). Sometimes I transfer them to the sling, sometimes not. In the summer, when it’s sweaty and uncomfortable for baby and for me to be chest to chest, this is a great way to keep them content by being close to me and keeping cool at the same time. I don’t understand the venom in the article, some people are just judgmental when it comes to parenting – their way is best, whatever their way happens to be. It’s silly.

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 am

  24. FLYING FALCON says:

    Hello, we had some web issues but it is up now. You may purchase them on our web site.

    Thank you for the positive feed back and please spread the word on our product.

    Thank you,
    John Sanchez

    March 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  25. FLYING FALCON says:

    Hello, we had some web issues but it is up now. You may purchase them on our web site.

    Thank you for the positive feed back and please spread the word on our product.

    Thank you,
    John Sanchez

    March 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm

  26. Belen Raymond says:

    She lost me at “If I had a second child…” because parenting with one is completely different than life with several kids. This is a great invention. I was searching google for this very thing. I also inherited a used FP seat with carrying strap and LOVE it. But I too was looking for a newer design. This is perfect. The last time I toted our carseat on my hip? Last Thursday across a huge soccer field with my 4 month old sound asleep, my other shoulder carrying three bags of camping chairs, while my 2 1/2 year old ran next to me trying hard to catch my 5 year old trying to catch my 6 1/2 year old trying to catch up with my 8 year old soccer daughter. Yes, that’s 5 healthy and happy children. And I received at least two compliments on the car seat carrying strap…they are wonderful!!!

    May 23rd, 2008 at 4:10 pm

  27. Jennifer says:

    Why not come up with a car seat liner that can detach and become a sling/carrier? That way you don’t have to lug the car seat OR disturb the baby that much.

    September 25th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

  28. silly mommy says:

    i do not understand why mother’s feel the need to carry around their babies in an infant seat. Its got to be the most stupid burden a mother can put on her self. I carried my daughter in her infant seat until she was 2 weeks old and then i could no longer use it. It was heavy and i felt that she was uncomfortable. she preferred to be in the sling and i liked having my hands free to do things. I would also put her laying flat in her stroller. Again there is no need to put your baby in the infant seat and place the infant seat in the stroller. So much more confortable to be laying flat and most strollers accomodate from birth. Moms stop making your lives more difficult then they need to be.

    October 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 am

  29. Elizabeth Yeung says:

    Who says you can’t breastfeed when your baby is in a car seat? You just sit next to her and lean in, with a light scarf covering the view so passersby don’t get a peep show. It doesn’t work as well since my daughter graduated to a forward-facing seat, but was a lifesaver on our extensive travels when she was in her portable rear-facing infant seat. (Yes, a bit uncomfortable for mom, but better than a crying baby!)

    I was a sling-only mom for my daughter’s first two months, which was fine for little walks, but awful for shopping – I desperately needed some maternity bras, nursing tops, etc – but it’s very hard to try things on when your baby is in a sling and there’s nowhere in the changing room to put her! Eating out and going to the gym was a challenge, too. When we finally got a car seat, it was fantastic – baby could nap in her seat on the floor between us, and I could eat my soup without worrying about spilling it on her.

    Even better was when we got a stroller that we could pop the car seat in – now I could drive to a store, try on clothes, and go back without waking her! Finally, I didn’t have to wear my maternity clothes!

    I still keep a simple pouch sling folded up small in my diaper bag for short walks or fussy days at home, and use the Ergo carrier for travelling, days I’m taking public transport, etc. (She’s 16 months old now.) But the stroller and car seat definitely have their place. No need to get dogmatic about it.

    October 21st, 2008 at 1:00 am

  30. Diana says:

    I tend to think that with a contraption that is not beneficial to the baby or the baby-parent relationship, inconvenient is good. Let’s not make it any easier to use!

    That said, I do not have experience with babies in really cold climates or many other specific parenting situations and I appreciate parents that are weighing all the options and making the best decision they can.

    I have, however, worn babies, toddlers, and preschoolers while pregnant (but not all at once!) and can not imagine wearing a baby in a carseat while pregnant! I also have worn more than one baby/kid at a time and am sure this is also easier and more comfortable than wearing one baby and wearing the other in a carseat!

    Slings and wraps have been lifesavers with twins or multiples for many parents. They encourage breastfeeding and bonding and have all the benefits mentioned in the blog post. One could interpret the studies as stating that spending time in the carseat results in babies that cry more, learn less, are less organized, take longer to be humanized, and are stupider.

    So, yeah, let’s leave it inconvenient!

    February 23rd, 2010 at 7:28 pm

  31. Elizabeth W. says:

    Just like any other parenting choice, there is a time and a place when one is the best and there is a time and a place when the other is the best. People who draw a hardcore line in the sand and say things are ridiculous or awful (with the exception of things like beating your child with a stick with razor blades on the end and whatnot) are generally being short-sighted and self-centered or else just plain ignorant.

    Like so many others have said, especially when you have more than one child to care for, slings are not always the best answer. The school drop off/pick up has been mentioned and I would like to second that and say that I do three of these a day and to disturb my baby for them would be just plain unnecessary and wouldn’t benefit anyone.

    I could list a bunch more times when easily removable carseats are better for mom, baby, and the whole family but i’ll spare you, you get the idea. There are also plenty of times when leaving the carseat in the car and using a sling or wrap is the best thing to do.

    Personally, I don’t think i’d use the carseat hanger thing enough to warrant buying one, but i’m open-minded enough to know that somewhere out there there is a parent who’s sanity would benefit from just such a contraption and far be it from me to judge that.

    February 24th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

  32. anjii says:

    I agree with Elizabeth. I’m a babywearer also, (my 29 month old still spends plenty of time in pouch slings and back carriers), but there were definitely times when the carseat was the better choice, like getting in/out for only a few minutes, eating at a restaurant (try doing that without spilling food on your sleeping baby, lol), and Costco shopping, where lifting a bulky, heavy box would be impossible without squishing the baby. It’s all about particular scenarios, not a black or white, all or nothing thing.

    February 25th, 2010 at 11:20 am

  33. Dallas says:

    When my child was born, I had a broken wrist, with a cast up over my elbow, and my thumb stuck as such an angle as to be unusable.

    My child allow would NOT tolerate a sling, wrap, front-pack, or other similar products. I know this because I spent a LOT of money trying to find something that worked for both of us. I probably tried at least 8 different kinds of carriers (besides the carseat).

    So, I carried her in her carseat at times. Something like this would have made it easier, and I would have felt better and more stable. Considering I had to lug her to and from my doctor’s appointments every week for over 5 months, I could have used this product.

    February 25th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

  34. Laura says:

    This is exactly the rant I’ve been thinking in my head for the last 6 months. My husband and I both enjoyed it.

    October 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm